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	<title>Comments on: Steve Jobs&#8217; response on Section 3.3.1</title>
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	<link>http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/2010/04/steve-jobs-response-on-section-3-3-1/</link>
	<description>Notice the Tao Effects...</description>
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		<title>By: Måns</title>
		<link>http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/2010/04/steve-jobs-response-on-section-3-3-1/comment-page-5/#comment-1540</link>
		<dc:creator>Måns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/?p=1964#comment-1540</guid>
		<description>Jobs just comes across like an ignorant old fashioned idiot that does not know how advanced software and compiler technology is progressing today. There is no way, that Objective C has long term future as a safe, productive and maintainable language. The free world will just make any closed universe seem like a gray concrete communist state in the long run.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jobs just comes across like an ignorant old fashioned idiot that does not know how advanced software and compiler technology is progressing today. There is no way, that Objective C has long term future as a safe, productive and maintainable language. The free world will just make any closed universe seem like a gray concrete communist state in the long run.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew W</title>
		<link>http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/2010/04/steve-jobs-response-on-section-3-3-1/comment-page-5/#comment-1537</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/?p=1964#comment-1537</guid>
		<description>freedivrex had it right.  It&#039;s not fundamentally performance; it&#039;s that Apple wants iApps to track *Apple&#039;s* APIs, not some third party toolkit.  The very nature of third party cross-platform frameworks is &quot;lowest common denominator&quot;, even if the back-end has significant platform-specific work.

If everyone is writing to a toolkit, then the toolkit provider will only &quot;feature up&quot; the toolkit when it is cross-platform convenient to do so, not when Apple (or anyone else) implements a groundbreaking platform-specific feature.

Now, some apps, like games, might be sufficiently non-standard in their interface that they don&#039;t lose much by defining their own UI.  But Steve has never been one to let the weakest case drive policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>freedivrex had it right.  It&#8217;s not fundamentally performance; it&#8217;s that Apple wants iApps to track *Apple&#8217;s* APIs, not some third party toolkit.  The very nature of third party cross-platform frameworks is &#8220;lowest common denominator&#8221;, even if the back-end has significant platform-specific work.</p>
<p>If everyone is writing to a toolkit, then the toolkit provider will only &#8220;feature up&#8221; the toolkit when it is cross-platform convenient to do so, not when Apple (or anyone else) implements a groundbreaking platform-specific feature.</p>
<p>Now, some apps, like games, might be sufficiently non-standard in their interface that they don&#8217;t lose much by defining their own UI.  But Steve has never been one to let the weakest case drive policy.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/2010/04/steve-jobs-response-on-section-3-3-1/comment-page-5/#comment-1536</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/?p=1964#comment-1536</guid>
		<description>&quot;Like an invisible cancer&quot; ??? Seriously, you couldn&#039;t have a found a less insensitive way to compare this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Like an invisible cancer&#8221; ??? Seriously, you couldn&#8217;t have a found a less insensitive way to compare this?</p>
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		<title>By: Nicolas Goles</title>
		<link>http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/2010/04/steve-jobs-response-on-section-3-3-1/comment-page-5/#comment-1535</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicolas Goles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/?p=1964#comment-1535</guid>
		<description>Regular Apps and Games are 100% different animals. I agree to use native Apple tools to develop Applications, but for games it&#039;s a whole different story, take Nintendo, Sony they have tools, but if you don&#039;t use them all, it doesn&#039;t matter, but if your app is slow or bad it will just be rejected. You evaluate the product, not how it was built, this is like discriminating someone because he was born in X instead of Y. 

Bullshit for games at least, ask ANY serious game dev about what he thinks about this and how it WILL hurt the AppStore ( oh and check how many of the top10 games in the appstore use scripting of some kind :-), tap tap revenge? The simpsons... ?

Damn</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regular Apps and Games are 100% different animals. I agree to use native Apple tools to develop Applications, but for games it&#8217;s a whole different story, take Nintendo, Sony they have tools, but if you don&#8217;t use them all, it doesn&#8217;t matter, but if your app is slow or bad it will just be rejected. You evaluate the product, not how it was built, this is like discriminating someone because he was born in X instead of Y. </p>
<p>Bullshit for games at least, ask ANY serious game dev about what he thinks about this and how it WILL hurt the AppStore ( oh and check how many of the top10 games in the appstore use scripting of some kind <img src='http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> , tap tap revenge? The simpsons&#8230; ?</p>
<p>Damn</p>
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		<title>By: babble</title>
		<link>http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/2010/04/steve-jobs-response-on-section-3-3-1/comment-page-5/#comment-1528</link>
		<dc:creator>babble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 23:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/?p=1964#comment-1528</guid>
		<description>Want Adobe-specific examples why this sort of cross-OS/cross-API development is bad for real-world users? 

Photoshop Elements for Mac vs. Photoshop Elements for Windows. 

Will we *ever* see a 64 bit version of Photoshop for OS X? 

Will we *ever* see Adobe take Flash performance seriously on OS X? 

Go ahead and cry crocodile tears for Adobe, here, if that flips your wig. But to pretend that ANY of this has to do with &quot;openness&quot; is silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Want Adobe-specific examples why this sort of cross-OS/cross-API development is bad for real-world users? </p>
<p>Photoshop Elements for Mac vs. Photoshop Elements for Windows. </p>
<p>Will we *ever* see a 64 bit version of Photoshop for OS X? </p>
<p>Will we *ever* see Adobe take Flash performance seriously on OS X? </p>
<p>Go ahead and cry crocodile tears for Adobe, here, if that flips your wig. But to pretend that ANY of this has to do with &#8220;openness&#8221; is silly.</p>
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		<title>By: clevername</title>
		<link>http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/2010/04/steve-jobs-response-on-section-3-3-1/comment-page-5/#comment-1527</link>
		<dc:creator>clevername</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 23:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/?p=1964#comment-1527</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t quite see what the fuss is about. According to the terms, all it&#039;s saying is that the app. must be written in C, C++, or Javascript. You don&#039;t even have to use Xcode. If someone were to come up with a compatibility layer (kind of like boost), written in C or C++, so that you could write an app. for iPhone and Android and whatever else, why wouldn&#039;t that be allowed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t quite see what the fuss is about. According to the terms, all it&#8217;s saying is that the app. must be written in C, C++, or Javascript. You don&#8217;t even have to use Xcode. If someone were to come up with a compatibility layer (kind of like boost), written in C or C++, so that you could write an app. for iPhone and Android and whatever else, why wouldn&#8217;t that be allowed?</p>
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		<title>By: babble</title>
		<link>http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/2010/04/steve-jobs-response-on-section-3-3-1/comment-page-5/#comment-1525</link>
		<dc:creator>babble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 23:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/?p=1964#comment-1525</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not saying NeXT&#039;s experience with OpenStep is the sole reason Apple is doing this. The point was that the original analysis of Steve&#039;s comment brought up relatively minor nonissues like CodeWarrior while ignoring entirely important comparisons where one company - NeXT - tried to do EXACTLY  what Adobe is attempting to do, with no real success to show for it. 

Of course Apple has a business interest in getting folks to use its own APIs and tools, because they want devs to use their ecosystem. Of course they do. 

Lest folks keep thinking Adobe is doing ANY of this out of the goodness of its own heart, they&#039;re not. Adobe&#039;s problem with this isn&#039;t about lock-in. It&#039;s about Apple not allowing Adobe to lock you into developing on Flash, instead of Xcode. 

Ranting about monopoly FUD is irrelevant. That Apple is successful doesn&#039;t mean they&#039;re forcing anybody else out of the smartphone platform. That Apple is successful, or has a growing share of that market doesn&#039;t mean they&#039;re able to keep anybody from entering the smartphone market. 

Have you even bothered to look at the market in question, here? 

If devs want to tell themselves that Apple is a mean, mean, meanypants and they choose not to develop for iPhone OS, that&#039;s perfectly fine. Go write Android apps, or Flash apps, or whatever floats your boat. Feel free. 

But whining about antitrust says far more about the typical irrational anti-Apple bias than it says anything useful about what&#039;s actually going on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not saying NeXT&#8217;s experience with OpenStep is the sole reason Apple is doing this. The point was that the original analysis of Steve&#8217;s comment brought up relatively minor nonissues like CodeWarrior while ignoring entirely important comparisons where one company &#8211; NeXT &#8211; tried to do EXACTLY  what Adobe is attempting to do, with no real success to show for it. </p>
<p>Of course Apple has a business interest in getting folks to use its own APIs and tools, because they want devs to use their ecosystem. Of course they do. </p>
<p>Lest folks keep thinking Adobe is doing ANY of this out of the goodness of its own heart, they&#8217;re not. Adobe&#8217;s problem with this isn&#8217;t about lock-in. It&#8217;s about Apple not allowing Adobe to lock you into developing on Flash, instead of Xcode. </p>
<p>Ranting about monopoly FUD is irrelevant. That Apple is successful doesn&#8217;t mean they&#8217;re forcing anybody else out of the smartphone platform. That Apple is successful, or has a growing share of that market doesn&#8217;t mean they&#8217;re able to keep anybody from entering the smartphone market. </p>
<p>Have you even bothered to look at the market in question, here? </p>
<p>If devs want to tell themselves that Apple is a mean, mean, meanypants and they choose not to develop for iPhone OS, that&#8217;s perfectly fine. Go write Android apps, or Flash apps, or whatever floats your boat. Feel free. </p>
<p>But whining about antitrust says far more about the typical irrational anti-Apple bias than it says anything useful about what&#8217;s actually going on.</p>
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		<title>By: bob</title>
		<link>http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/2010/04/steve-jobs-response-on-section-3-3-1/comment-page-5/#comment-1524</link>
		<dc:creator>bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 23:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/?p=1964#comment-1524</guid>
		<description>OpenStep are you kidding, this is about locking out competition.  Im sure Apple has lawyers sleeping in firehouses ready to slide down poles when the inevitable lawsuit against them for anticompetitive practices is filed.  If we werent talking about cellphones, this would not have even lasted this long.

There&#039;s no such thing as too arrogant to fail, and there is such a thing as law against this exact behavior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OpenStep are you kidding, this is about locking out competition.  Im sure Apple has lawyers sleeping in firehouses ready to slide down poles when the inevitable lawsuit against them for anticompetitive practices is filed.  If we werent talking about cellphones, this would not have even lasted this long.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no such thing as too arrogant to fail, and there is such a thing as law against this exact behavior.</p>
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		<title>By: babble</title>
		<link>http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/2010/04/steve-jobs-response-on-section-3-3-1/comment-page-5/#comment-1520</link>
		<dc:creator>babble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 22:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/?p=1964#comment-1520</guid>
		<description>&quot;Perhaps he’s referring to the days when some applications were being written with CodeWarrior and various other build systems...&quot;

You&#039;re missing one rather large, salient point (assuming this is actually from Steve): NeXT has been down this road, already, with OpenStep. They tried to build a rapid-application development toolchain and had an IDE that forms the basis of today&#039;s Xcode. 

The idea was to write an OpenStep app exactly once, and run it as-is on NT, Solaris, NextStep and anywhere else OpenStep would eventually be ported. 

OpenStep everywhere - one API family to rule them all. 

This worked out for precisely no one, and led directly to NeXT turning to WebObjects in order to become a modestly profitable software company, instead of a footnote, a failed hardware manufacturer, etc. 

I&#039;d say take Steve&#039;s answer at face value: cross platform toolkits don&#039;t really leverage what&#039;s good, and interesting about developing for a specific platform, and devs are at the mercy of waiting for the intermediate toolchain to keep in sync with the underlying OS/API set. Steve&#039;s been down this road before, not with sort-of-kind-of examples from Apple&#039;s history during his years in exile, but with an actual attempt to do essentially exactly what Adobe is attempting to do, when he was doing NeXT.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Perhaps he’s referring to the days when some applications were being written with CodeWarrior and various other build systems&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>You&#8217;re missing one rather large, salient point (assuming this is actually from Steve): NeXT has been down this road, already, with OpenStep. They tried to build a rapid-application development toolchain and had an IDE that forms the basis of today&#8217;s Xcode. </p>
<p>The idea was to write an OpenStep app exactly once, and run it as-is on NT, Solaris, NextStep and anywhere else OpenStep would eventually be ported. </p>
<p>OpenStep everywhere &#8211; one API family to rule them all. </p>
<p>This worked out for precisely no one, and led directly to NeXT turning to WebObjects in order to become a modestly profitable software company, instead of a footnote, a failed hardware manufacturer, etc. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d say take Steve&#8217;s answer at face value: cross platform toolkits don&#8217;t really leverage what&#8217;s good, and interesting about developing for a specific platform, and devs are at the mercy of waiting for the intermediate toolchain to keep in sync with the underlying OS/API set. Steve&#8217;s been down this road before, not with sort-of-kind-of examples from Apple&#8217;s history during his years in exile, but with an actual attempt to do essentially exactly what Adobe is attempting to do, when he was doing NeXT.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris G</title>
		<link>http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/2010/04/steve-jobs-response-on-section-3-3-1/comment-page-5/#comment-1519</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 22:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/?p=1964#comment-1519</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure that 3.3.1 really makes that much of a difference to how people are writing for the iPhone today. I don&#039;t know any iPhone developer who ISN&#039;T either writing web apps or writing them in Objective C - so what&#039;s the beef? Sure, the intention is to prevent the use of future, as yet unreleased, alternative build platforms, but given they don&#039;t actually exist today, it&#039;s not like it causes a big inconvenience to anyone (except someone who perhaps is building such a programming environment).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure that 3.3.1 really makes that much of a difference to how people are writing for the iPhone today. I don&#8217;t know any iPhone developer who ISN&#8217;T either writing web apps or writing them in Objective C &#8211; so what&#8217;s the beef? Sure, the intention is to prevent the use of future, as yet unreleased, alternative build platforms, but given they don&#8217;t actually exist today, it&#8217;s not like it causes a big inconvenience to anyone (except someone who perhaps is building such a programming environment).</p>
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